Would using Kinect with Guild Wars be considered cheating and gets you banned? - Guild Wars Forums

Daesu · Feb 03, 2011, 08:00 AM // 08:00

I noticed this article on the web where Creative Technologies have created a solution to enable Kinect to work with PC computer games like WoW. Presumably this could be made to work for games like Guild War also, but then wouldn't that get you banned as well since they are emulating keyboard and mouse?

=====

The Kinect game controller may have been created to play Xbox 360 titles only, but a group of university researchers are working on software that lets gamers use the motion sensing device to play computer games like "World of Warcraft."

The folks at USC's Institute for Creative Techologies are working on software called FAAST ??? Flexible Action and Articulated Skeleton Toolkit ??? which intigrates full-body controls into off-the-shelf computer games (the kind of games you usually control with a keyboard and mouse).

"Since these games would not normally support motion sensing devices, FAAST emulates keyboard input triggered by body posture and specific gestures," the researchers write. "These controls can be dynamically configured for different applications and games." (In addition to a Kinect sensor, players can also use a PrimeSensor camera, according to the researchers.)

The researchers go on to say that this tool could be used not only for entertainment purposes, but to help injured people ... and to help overweight "WoW" players.

"This opens up the doorway for building rehabilitation exercises for people after a stroke or traumatic brain injury and in an area that's getting a lot of attention ??? the area of childhood obesity and diabetes," says the institute's Skip Rizzo. "You've got a kid who's interacting with 'World of Warcraft' for six hours a day, perhaps a parent could step in and say, 'Hey, for one hour of that time you're gonna do it with the Kinect or the PrimeSense camera, and you gotta exercise while you're doing it.'

"Instead of using a thumb controller to move your character you've got to run in place, you've got to use arm gestures and you actually build into the application a way for a kid to physically engage with digital content."

http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ld-of-warcraft

Shanaeri Rynale · Feb 03, 2011, 08:17 AM // 08:17

A guildie has got his working with GW and says it's ok for some messing about but is not really viable atm as an alternative to keyboard and mouse.

Only Anet can indicate if their bot code will pick up the simulated key presses but since it involves way more interaction than normal It can't be considered botting. My gut feel says you'd be ok as the bot code would typically look for regular, repeated and streamed inputs. Since kinect does'nt produce the first two(at least it doesn't when I play it -lol).

Best thing to do if you are still not sure is to fire the same question at support/Gaile's wiki page

Nekodesu · Feb 03, 2011, 08:26 AM // 08:26

I wouldn't think so, this is not botting, as botting is using a program/or w/e to do things for you? I think it also would be a good idea to let players use Kinect for GW/GW2. It's always better with more physical activity for people who play games :P

But yeah, ask on Gaile's wiki page.

Bristlebane · Feb 03, 2011, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Technically you could just create a bluetooth interface for your Android mobile, using the accelerometer in mobile as a controller ^^
Yes, it was OT, now returning to your question: No, it's not considered botting and it's perfectly legal to use external keyboards/keypads/joysticks etc, even programmable mecro keys. Now what's not legal is programming macros that will do things for you while you're afk.

Bassma · Feb 03, 2011, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Read the EULA it says ANY 3rd party program/tools. Is Kinect a 3rd party program/tool? Yes it is therefore YES you will get BANNED for using it when caught so don't come crying on the forum when it happens.

EULA:

Quote:

You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools,

Getting banned is not just about BOTTING. It involves anything that violates the EULA and in the soul discretion of Anet/Ncsoft at the time they discover the infraction. They can ban or not ban by choice it is THEIR choice btw not what you THINK should be their choice.

MisterB · Feb 03, 2011, 12:03 PM // 12:03

I use a DualShock 2 with 3rd party mouse and keyboard emulation software to play Guild Wars. When I contacted NCSoft Support asking if this was allowed, they said yes, so long as it does not automate play or give any unfair advantage. Don't take my word for it, though. Ask them directly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

Read the EULA it says ANY 3rd party program/tools. Is Kinect a 3rd party program/tool? Yes it is therefore YES you will get BANNED for using it when caught so don't come crying on the forum when it happens.

Quote:

You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of 'bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.

That's the full quote, in context. You've interpreted it incorrectly.

Rushin Roulette · Feb 03, 2011, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

Read the EULA it says ANY 3rd party program/tools. Is Kinect a 3rd party program/tool? Yes it is therefore YES you will get BANNED for using it when caught so don't come crying on the forum when it happens.

EULA:

Getting banned is not just about BOTTING. It involves anything that violates the EULA and in the soul discretion of Anet/Ncsoft at the time they discover the infraction. They can ban or not ban by choice it is THEIR choice btw not what you THINK should be their choice.

You really should quote the whole sentence before interpreting anything Basma. The way you wrote it people will get banned for using PSc, any old Keyboard or any Mouse. Anet has not made a single PC, Monitor or Mouse (excluding branding for the Guildwars Razer mouse in the store) which means that anything remotely hardware related would get you banned as per your interpretation.

Genesis123 · Feb 03, 2011, 12:19 PM // 12:19

No u wont get banned.

End · Feb 03, 2011, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

Read the EULA it says ANY 3rd party program/tools. Is Kinect a 3rd party program/tool? Yes it is therefore YES you will get BANNED for using it when caught so don't come crying on the forum when it happens.

EULA:

Shit. I have a keyboard and mouse...I is gonna get banned. lolz.

No it won't get you banned, however, I think it may be a bit to awkward without a whole lot of work.

Bassma · Feb 03, 2011, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

You really should quote the whole sentence before interpreting anything Basma. The way you wrote it people will get banned for using PSc, any old Keyboard or any Mouse. Anet has not made a single PC, Monitor or Mouse (excluding branding for the Guildwars Razer mouse in the store) which means that anything remotely hardware related would get you banned as per your interpretation.

You know what the EULA means and I do as well and you all know the keyboard and mouse are not 3rd party programs. They are part of the PC needed to play the game. So quit being trolls about it.

You both also didn't include the part where I said and they said "It is THEIR SOUL DISCRETION about who gets banned and why. They can ban you because you smell if they want to.

End · Feb 03, 2011, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

You know what the EULA means and I do as well and you all know the keyboard and mouse are not 3rd party programs. They are part of the PC needed to play the game. So quit being trolls about it.

You both also didn't include the part where I said and they said "It is THEIR SOUL DISCRETION about who gets banned and why. They can ban you because you smell if they want to.

Both are third party forms of hardware. The kinect would be acting as an input device as any keyboard or mouse would. You are thereby saying that people should be banned from using keyboards and mice because they are third party hardware.

Firebaall · Feb 03, 2011, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

Read the EULA it says ANY 3rd party program/tools. Is Kinect a 3rd party program/tool? Yes it is therefore YES you will get BANNED for using it when caught so don't come crying on the forum when it happens.

EULA:

Getting banned is not just about BOTTING. It involves anything that violates the EULA and in the soul discretion of Anet/Ncsoft at the time they discover the infraction. They can ban or not ban by choice it is THEIR choice btw not what you THINK should be their choice.

You need to learn how to comprehend what you read.

If you feel that you are actually correct, contact support. I promise they won't actually laugh at you in the response. However, they may pass your e-mail around the office for a good snicker fest.

Rushin Roulette · Feb 03, 2011, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

You know what the EULA means and I do as well and you all know the keyboard and mouse are not 3rd party programs. They are part of the PC needed to play the game. So quit being trolls about it.

You both also didn't include the part where I said and they said "It is THEIR SOUL DISCRETION about who gets banned and why. They can ban you because you smell if they want to.

Umm. I wasnt trolling. I made a post commenting directly regarding your first post explaining politely without insulting how you were wrong. If everyone who proves you wrong is a Troll... then I have the bad news for you... nearly the whole world is full of trolls

.

This part of your first post is not very hard to understand and very hard to mis-interprate;

Quote:

Read the EULA it says ANY 3rd party program/tools. Is Kinect a 3rd party program/tool? Yes it is therefore YES you will get BANNED for using it when caught so don't come crying on the forum when it happens.

My post said Keyboards, PCs and Mice are not produced by Anet. Therefore by deffinition they are 3rd party tools. You wrote that ANY 3rd party tool will get you banned which means you wrote that using a Keyboard will get you banned.

Your problem in your first post is you quoted half a sentence and formed your theory on incomplete data.

MisterB quoted the full passage which shows that your theory is not true;

Quote:

You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of 'bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.

I have highlited the important part of the full EULA passage which you missed while forming your theory. That part also allows you to use PCs, Mice and Keyboards without specifically naming them. The Kinetict would also be covered by that (Even though it will deffinitely not be particularly good for controlling an MMO setup like GW or WoW), but it would be best to ask Support if you are still not 100% Sure. We can of course not give you a deffinite answer as none of us work at or for Anet.

Aeons · Feb 03, 2011, 03:54 PM // 15:54

They allow people to use Texmod and that's 3rd party. Chances are, Kinect will be just the same so they'll let it pass.

Bassma · Feb 03, 2011, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

You wrote that ANY 3rd party tool will get you banned which means you wrote that using a Keyboard will get you banned.

Last I read keyboards and mouse aren't 3rd parties to a computer which you need to play the game so now you are still being a troll. You know what I meant you are just being antagonizing now which is what trolls do.

Bassma · Feb 03, 2011, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

You need to learn how to comprehend what you read.

If you feel that you are actually correct, contact support. I promise they won't actually laugh at you in the response. However, they may pass your e-mail around the office for a good snicker fest.

Let's put it this way it's their call if they want to ban you and you nor anyone else on this board knows 100% for sure they won't ban for using the 3rd party kinect. So use it. I said don't come crying if/when you get banned for using it. But, don't tell someone they won't ban when you don't know if you don't expect other to tell them they will ban if they don't know. You're wrong and everyone else because you don't know.

I'm pretty sure the OP wanted feedback from Anet from their online PR person anyway when he/she posted this thread. But, of course all the trolls jump in acting like they know everything Anet does or will do.

Verene · Feb 03, 2011, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

Last I read keyboards and mouse aren't 3rd parties to a computer which you need to play the game so now you are still being a troll. You know what I meant you are just being antagonizing now which is what trolls do.

You accusing people of being a troll? That's a laugh. And no, he's correcting your errors. That's not trolling.

Using Kinect may or may not get you banned from GW - it depends on whether or not Anet thinks that it could give you an unfair advantage. We don't know yet.

The bigger issue I'd think would be Microsoft's EULA on using the Kinect, what they'd deem is improper use of it, and if they can tell that it's being used for something other than 360 Kinect games.

Anshuri · Feb 03, 2011, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Im not a kinect expert and have never used it tbh, but to me, using kinect for GW doesnt sound to me like it would give you any advantage over keyboard + mouse.

Rushin Roulette · Feb 03, 2011, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

Last I read keyboards and mouse aren't 3rd parties to a computer which you need to play the game so now you are still being a troll. You know what I meant you are just being antagonizing now which is what trolls do.

You really do not know waht 3rd party means do you? Or you are being an incredibly dense troll.

Let me explain to you that 3rd parties are by law so that you might have an idea of just how dumb your posts are;

3rd party is anyone who is not part of a 2 way contract.

The 2 parties in the contract (EULA) you agreed to before being able to play GW are:

Yourself
Arenanet/NCSoft

No other person (with the exception of a legal guardian if you are under 18 at the time of the contract) or company.

As neither you nor Arenanet/NCSoft actually produce PC Systemy or PC parts, any other company which does is by LAW (not only EULA) considered a 3rd party; be it Microsoft (which made Windows you need to play Guild Wars on), Dell/HP/Logitech/ATI/Nvidia/etc. (which makes PC parts you need to run the system you use to play GW on).

You said clearly and unmistakeably that the use of ANY 3rd party PROGRAM (Windows) or TOOL (PC systems and all their individual components be they inside or outside of the computer) will casue you to be banned because YOU ONLY QUOTED AND INTERRETED HALF A DAMN SENTENCE FROM A PARAGRAPH OF THE EULA.

If you had Quoted the whole damn sentence, then you would have figured out, as not only I am writing to explain this simple fact to you, that the EULA does not allow any 3rd party programms or tools that GIVE YOU AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.

As PCs, Keyboards and Mice do not give an unfair advantage they are permitted 3rd party programms and tools in the contract. As the Kinect does not give an unfair advantage it is also a permitted 3rd party tool exactly like the Keyboard and mouse because it does nothing without human input through mechanical movement of the body.

Astral_Nomad · Feb 03, 2011, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I noticed this article on the web where Creative Technologies have created a solution to enable Kinect to work with PC computer games like WoW. Presumably this could be made to work for games like Guild War also, but then wouldn't that get you banned as well since they are emulating keyboard and mouse?

=====

The Kinect game controller may have been created to play Xbox 360 titles only, but a group of university researchers are working on software that lets gamers use the motion sensing device to play computer games like "World of Warcraft."

The folks at USC's Institute for Creative Techologies are working on software called FAAST ??? Flexible Action and Articulated Skeleton Toolkit ??? which intigrates full-body controls into off-the-shelf computer games (the kind of games you usually control with a keyboard and mouse).

"Since these games would not normally support motion sensing devices, FAAST emulates keyboard input triggered by body posture and specific gestures," the researchers write. "These controls can be dynamically configured for different applications and games." (In addition to a Kinect sensor, players can also use a PrimeSensor camera, according to the researchers.)

The researchers go on to say that this tool could be used not only for entertainment purposes, but to help injured people ... and to help overweight "WoW" players.

"This opens up the doorway for building rehabilitation exercises for people after a stroke or traumatic brain injury and in an area that's getting a lot of attention ??? the area of childhood obesity and diabetes," says the institute's Skip Rizzo. "You've got a kid who's interacting with 'World of Warcraft' for six hours a day, perhaps a parent could step in and say, 'Hey, for one hour of that time you're gonna do it with the Kinect or the PrimeSense camera, and you gotta exercise while you're doing it.'

"Instead of using a thumb controller to move your character you've got to run in place, you've got to use arm gestures and you actually build into the application a way for a kid to physically engage with digital content."

http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ld-of-warcraft

I read something about that before.. depending on how its being used, i dont think Anet would have a big problem with it.. its not like yer hacking the game itself with it - but i WOULD be more concerned about Microsuck.. they were questioning the legality of hacking the Kinect.

Feb 03, 2011, 08:00 AM // 08:00	#1
Daesu Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2008	Would using Kinect with Guild Wars be considered cheating and gets you banned? I noticed this article on the web where Creative Technologies have created a solution to enable Kinect to work with PC computer games like WoW. Presumably this could be made to work for games like Guild War also, but then wouldn't that get you banned as well since they are emulating keyboard and mouse? ===== The Kinect game controller may have been created to play Xbox 360 titles only, but a group of university researchers are working on software that lets gamers use the motion sensing device to play computer games like "World of Warcraft." The folks at USC's Institute for Creative Techologies are working on software called FAAST ??? Flexible Action and Articulated Skeleton Toolkit ??? which intigrates full-body controls into off-the-shelf computer games (the kind of games you usually control with a keyboard and mouse). "Since these games would not normally support motion sensing devices, FAAST emulates keyboard input triggered by body posture and specific gestures," the researchers write. "These controls can be dynamically configured for different applications and games." (In addition to a Kinect sensor, players can also use a PrimeSensor camera, according to the researchers.) The researchers go on to say that this tool could be used not only for entertainment purposes, but to help injured people ... and to help overweight "WoW" players. "This opens up the doorway for building rehabilitation exercises for people after a stroke or traumatic brain injury and in an area that's getting a lot of attention ??? the area of childhood obesity and diabetes," says the institute's Skip Rizzo. "You've got a kid who's interacting with 'World of Warcraft' for six hours a day, perhaps a parent could step in and say, 'Hey, for one hour of that time you're gonna do it with the Kinect or the PrimeSense camera, and you gotta exercise while you're doing it.' "Instead of using a thumb controller to move your character you've got to run in place, you've got to use arm gestures and you actually build into the application a way for a kid to physically engage with digital content." http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ld-of-warcraft

Feb 03, 2011, 08:17 AM // 08:17	#2
Shanaeri Rynale Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005 Guild: DVDF(Forums) Profession: Me/N	A guildie has got his working with GW and says it's ok for some messing about but is not really viable atm as an alternative to keyboard and mouse. Only Anet can indicate if their bot code will pick up the simulated key presses but since it involves way more interaction than normal It can't be considered botting. My gut feel says you'd be ok as the bot code would typically look for regular, repeated and streamed inputs. Since kinect does'nt produce the first two(at least it doesn't when I play it -lol). Best thing to do if you are still not sure is to fire the same question at support/Gaile's wiki page

Feb 03, 2011, 08:26 AM // 08:26	#3
Nekodesu Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2009	I wouldn't think so, this is not botting, as botting is using a program/or w/e to do things for you? I think it also would be a good idea to let players use Kinect for GW/GW2. It's always better with more physical activity for people who play games :P But yeah, ask on Gaile's wiki page.

Feb 03, 2011, 10:09 AM // 10:09	#4
Bristlebane Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2008 Profession: Mo/	Technically you could just create a bluetooth interface for your Android mobile, using the accelerometer in mobile as a controller ^^ Yes, it was OT, now returning to your question: No, it's not considered botting and it's perfectly legal to use external keyboards/keypads/joysticks etc, even programmable mecro keys. Now what's not legal is programming macros that will do things for you while you're afk.

Feb 03, 2011, 12:19 PM // 12:19	#8
Genesis123 Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Sep 2010	No u wont get banned.

Feb 03, 2011, 03:54 PM // 15:54	#14
Aeons Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Georgia Profession: R/	They allow people to use Texmod and that's 3rd party. Chances are, Kinect will be just the same so they'll let it pass.

Feb 03, 2011, 04:36 PM // 16:36	#18
Anshuri Academy Page Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Sweden Guild: Children Of Horrigan Profession: N/Me	Im not a kinect expert and have never used it tbh, but to me, using kinect for GW doesnt sound to me like it would give you any advantage over keyboard + mouse.